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June 30, 2017

How to bring the now subconscious parts under a conscious control

Dear Kashyap and Vinod,

Debate is at a very interesting point and I feel Sri Aurobindo can be of help to resolve issues.

1. On the Ontology front, he posits the Exclusive Concentration concept whereby the highest Consciousness restricts itself to become finite beings.

2. On the Epistemology front, he invokes the Logic of the Infinite principle which, in essence, means the highest Consciousness is not bound by our rationality and can manifest simultaneously as void as well as existence or something can arise out of nothing and things like that.

If one accepts these two aspects, other jigsaw pieces fall into place and there are no contradictions in Ontology. Otherwise, forced juxtaposition of distinct domains are bound to be at loggerheads, for a long time in future.

Thanks,

Tusar (b.1955)
June 30, 2017
To view this discussion on the web visit
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Chapter 1: What is Death (Part 1) - For all our knowledge of life, death continues to remain a mystery. Just as we know something about the processes of life rather than about the life-prin... 

The central seat of the body’s will is in the brain, the most developed and, ontogenetically, the most recent in evolution, the prefrontal cortex. The parts controlling respiration and heartbeats are placed down below in the third layer of the brain. Keeping in view nature’s logic of telencephalisation or to put it philosophically, ascent and integration, these lower parts have to be under the control of the higher. Recent evidence suggests it as well. It is just that we have not been trained to look at it from that angle but it can be developed methodically in such a way that our conscious mental will controls even the ‘autonomous parts’. From our point of view that is indeed one of the things Sri Aurobindo has suggested for the body — to bring the now subconscious parts under a conscious control. It is perhaps just a question of reactivating these sleeping paths. 

The only problem remaining then would be of working out alternate means for the flow of the life-current. The yogi is precisely such an explorer discovering hidden possibilities of the body, mind and the soul, other than those normally known to man. Let us not brush away their heroically scientific and even path breaking efforts as mere dreams of some madmen. Dreams perhaps for the common lot who strive not for something higher than what nature has provided but it is thanks to these dreams that we can still dare to hope and strive to conquer life and Nature. Thanks again to this madness that we can try to exceed ourselves and dare the impossible and reach out to the unreachable summits beyond our little humanity! 

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Sathe mo basanta nei - Sathe mo basanta nei Singer: Shefali Sarkar Lyrics: Jitendra Pattnaik https://youtu.be/7NJgtWspkrk Sephali Sarkar sings.. ''Saathe Mun Basanta...'' from ... 

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Darwin is not in Wilber's camp - [PDF] CLIMBING THE STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN F Visser The phrase "creative advance into novelty" is from process philosopher Whitehead, and is often used by Wilber... 

Sound ontological shelter painstakingly built by Sri Aurobindo -Dear Kashyap, Your conjecture that consciousness can be turned on or off has the theoretical sanction of Sri Aurobindo which he has dwelt upon in his famou...

Darwin is not in Wilber's camp

[PDF] CLIMBING THE STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
F Visser
The phrase "creative advance into novelty" is from process philosopher Whitehead, and is often used by Wilber to refer to this mysterious question of how on earth anything new could possible have arisen. However, postulating "novelty" as a cosmic principle that cannot be explained any further hardly does anything more than begging the questions we have about nature. Science, in contrast, tries to unravel the mechanism behind seemingly mysterious natural phenomena, and books progress every day. It is an anti-science and anti-discovery stance to postulate a cosmic driving force such as Wilber's Eros, to throw light on these phenomena. 

It is not just that Wilber has meditated a lot and prefers to speak about these extraordinary experiences using some mystical poetry. No, he often uses these notions deliberately and specifically to "explain" natural phenomena—without ever specifying the details, of course. [...]

Darwin's invocation of love has absolutely nothing to do with Wilber's ontological positioning of it in his Integral theory. It is sexual selection and survival of individuals within a nested network (family, friends, tribes) that is the real focus and prime mover behind why love arises in the first place. Contrary to Wilber presupposition, Darwin is not "reifying" love nor equating it in any way with Integral theory's notion of Eros. Using Wilber and Loye's own questionable methodology underlines this very point since the word sex appears nearly twenty times more than the word love in the The Descent of Man. 

Is word count really an insightful way to truly understand a theory? I think not, particularly when such word choices invariably come embedded within an informing and necessary context. Adolph Hitler's Mein Kampf, for instance, to take just one stark example mentions the word love in some form over 40 times.… Darwin is not in Wilber's camp, no matter how one tries to wiggle him into fit an "Integral" paradigm entrenched as it is with a directional aim for evolution. 
Frank  Visser,  "Science Has No Answer,  Ken Wilber's Mistaken Strategy  of  Belittling Science", April  2016,
...

Dear Vinod,

Wild fluctuations come from the fact (uncertainty pr) that delta(t) and delta(x) are extremely small at the beginning of the universe. Our universe is supposed to have started in an extremely small patch of vacuum. Indeed, we have to postulate a very strong field, the so called Inflaton which is believed to be responsible for this very rapid exponential expansion. These quantum fields were present in the original vacuum. The quantum field theory for this is on good ground.

Best Regards.

kashyap
June 28, 2017
Vasavada, Kashyap V
To view this discussion on the web visit
...

Kashyap Vasavada on June 30, 2017 wrote: Nevertheless it is absolutely necessary to have quantum fields in the primordial vacuum and wild fluctuations. So, in this sense, something did not come out of nothing!!
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[S.P.] For anything to exist, there must be a concrete place, or a volume of space, where it exists. In the beginning there was no space, no vacuum, therefore nothing could be said to exist in the beginning. However, if we start from presuming the existence of "quantum fields in the primordial vacuum and wild fluctuations", then it is the same as to assert that a tree has evolved from a seed -- an enough trivial statement.  
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[Kashyap Vasavada] wrote: Question of ontology should be left to philosophers. ... Speculations on ontology does not help that much in doing physics,
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[S.P.] Then the "Big-Bang theory" and "Multiverse theory" should be treated as philosophic theories which bear no relation to Physics. I agree. I would also add that Physics should also stop trying to account for consciousness, since it is not its subject matter -- it is a subject matter for the Science of Consciousness as a new scientific discipline.
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Best,
Serge Patlavskiy
June 30, 2017
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[Eric Reyes] wrote: I think the exact opposite is true, for what is absolute or whole there is no beginning. If something exists it has always existed.
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[S.P.] What I believe is that Noumenal Reality had no beginning and will have no ending. By "Noumenal Reality" I mean the one which is postulated to exist objectively and independently of what we think about it. However, every living organism has its own version of Phenomenal Reality as a sum of experience (knowledge, information, etc.) about Noumenal Reality, and this sum of experience the organism acquires due to activity of own consciousness in the course of its life. So, the given organism's version of Phenomenal Reality begins right after the moment of insemination, and ends when the organism dies -- it has its beginning and ending.

Second. I like your talking about Reality as a whole. I have even formulated what I call the General Law of Simultaneity, which holds that for (Noumenal) Reality to exist as a single whole, all the events and processes that belong to it, if they do take place, they must necessarily take place simultaneously, and this fact does not depend on a physical frame of reference we choose within our Reality, nor on a distance between these events and processes. (For details, see my reply to Jonathan Edwards on May 30, 2017).
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Kindly,
Serge Patlavskiy
June 30, 2017
To view this discussion on the web visit
...

Dear Joseph,

Study of consciousness should be segregated into at least three different sectors:

1. One's professional life involves a set of skills and values. Those have a bearing on one's conception of consciousness. Those engaged in science are the most affected.

2. As social beings, a practical level of understanding of consciousness is assumed. It needn't interfere with 1. and 3.

3. At the purely personal level, the responsibility of finding what is true is paramount and should be pursued disregarding 1. and 2. Many feel they can search for the truth on their own but tell things that are imperfectly plagiarised versions of earlier propositions.

A main problem in this Forum is people generally conflate the three whereas distinct routes can lead to more honest discoveries.

Thanks,
Tusar (b.1955)
...

Humanity is nothing more than a microscopic blip in the universe. But does that mean we are insignificant?
https://t.co/4COC2egZaQ - https://t.co/zXkf9qmYiA

hauskeller.blogspot.com › 2016/11 › gu...
Nov 20, 2016 - In a paper entitled “Our Cosmic Insignificance”, published in Nous 48.4 (2014): 745-772, Guy Kahane attempts to clarify what cosmic significance (and its opposite, cosmic insignificance ...

David Benatar - 2017 - ‎Preview - ‎More editions
Guy Kahane, “Our Cosmic Insignificance, 761. Thomas Nagel, “The Absurd,” in Mortal Questions (Cambridge , UK: Cambridge University Press, 1979), 11. Ibid., 12. Ibid. Kurt Baier advances a similar argument. He says that if life “can be worthwhile at all, then it can be so even though it be short. And if it is not worthwhile at all, ...

" Vande Mataram!": Constructions of Gender and Music in Indian Nationalism
AJP Elias - Asian Music, 2017
... Following are the complete lyrics of "Vande Mataram," translated into English by Sri Aurobindo Ghose (1999, 465–66): [End Page 103]. ... New Delhi: Penguin Books. Bhose, Sri Aurobindo Google Scholar. Bhose, Sri Aurobindo 1999 The Complete Works of Sri Aurobindo. Vol. ...

Margot
R Som - 2017
... and boycott movements. Swamiji had passed away in 1902, and she now came into close contact with the leading nationalists of the day, from Aurobindo Ghosh to Congress leaders like Gopal Krishna Gokhale. Nivedita was ...

[PDF] CLIMBING THE STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN
F Visser
... in others an aspect of evolution, and still others a process that follows the completion of evolution in the human form." The involution concept is elaborated in the esoteric schools of Theosophy, Anthroposophy and Rosicrucianism, in the philosophy of Sri Aurobindo (1872-1950 ...

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June 29, 2017

Science is as confused as ever about consciousness

Swarajya-20 hours ago
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Dear Vinod,

This model called “inflation” tops all models of modern physics in its weirdness! But it does explain lot of data coming from study of cosmic microwave background. These are (1) Flatness: Spatial curvature in the currently observable universe seems to be zero on the average. This is like the earth is round, but your street looks flat.(2) horizon problem: the universe looks same in all directions, including regions which did not have enough time to reach equilibrium, since the beginning of the universe.(3) people cannot find any magnetic monopoles, although every grand unified theory predicts abundance of them. 

In fact couple of years back the model was almost verified by data taken in a detector near south pole (BICEP). But there were lot of alternative explanations. So the interpretation is on hold, subject to newer more precise data. The Nobel prize for this model will have to wait. This model has lot of consensus, but not unanimous. In fact recently, the opposing group wrote an open  letter in scientific american magazine. Twenty seven believers , including some past Nobel Laureates, wrote a strong counter letter. Personally, the model looks all right to me. But who knows, what the new data will suggest? So stay tuned. There are quite a few articles on internet. You may want to read them when you have time.

About consciousness, science is as confused as ever! Just on this web site I see 5-6 different models! There are probably hundreds more outside.

Best Regards.

Kashyap
June 28, 2017
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Dear Joseph,

I'm not aware of your background. You can check the following links to get a sense of what Sri Aurobindo has in mind:



Then we can discuss the current concerns in a more fruitful manner. Thanks,

Tusar (b.1955)
...

Dear LSG,

The following essay can answer your questions in the most satisfactory manner.

Thanks,
Tusar (b.1955)

An Introduction to Sri Aurobindo’s Metaphysical Cosmology: Part I – The Involution
...

June 28, 2017

Starting with the ultimately full and actual

By Stephen Buranyi - Tuesday 27 June 2017
Many scientists also believe that the publishing industry exerts too much influence over what scientists choose to study, which is ultimately bad for science itself. Journals prize new and spectacular results – after all, they are in the business of selling subscriptions – and scientists, knowing exactly what kind of work gets published, align their submissions accordingly. This produces a steady stream of papers, the importance of which is immediately apparent. But it also means that scientists do not have an accurate map of their field of inquiry. Researchers may end up inadvertently exploring dead ends that their fellow scientists have already run up against, solely because the information about previous failures has never been given space in the pages of the relevant scientific publications. A 2013 study, for example, reported that half of all clinical trials in the US are never published in a journal.

According to critics, the journal system actually holds back scientific progress. In a 2008 essay, Dr Neal Young of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), which funds and conducts medical research for the US government, argued that, given the importance of scientific innovation to society, “there is a moral imperative to reconsider how scientific data are judged and disseminated”.
...

Jim, I agree with you that we scientists must examine mathematical proofs and empirical feasibility, and apply that as a major measure of validity and value of the results. That is exactly what our paper, a condensation of more than 100 of our other publications consists of: Very dense, but creating a consistent theme based on hypothesis testing, where after all these years, the results not only still stand up, but consistently amplify the scope of the previous work. This, with respect, is cogent data that the underlying fundamental axioms for TDVP are correct.
More later.
With my special best wishes.
Vernon
June 28, 2017
Vernon M Neppe MD, PhD,
...

1. The Western intellectual tradition has, for the past few centuries, gotten caught up in a program of materialistic reductionism. The goal of this project is to account for all of experience in terms of the assumption that the ultimately real consists of a self-existing, essentially deterministic complex of spacetime and energy which unfolds according to immutable laws that can be adequately expressed in mathematical terms. Insofar as this project is pursued, it leads inevitably to the problem of “emergence.” How can phenomena such as life, mind and consciousness have arisen out of a material matrix in which none of these phenomena are inherent?
2. Sri Aurobindo avoids this problem by starting not with something simple and abstract, but rather by starting with the ultimately full and actual, and then deriving everything else as a simplification from that. This ultimately full and concrete beginning of things he calls, in accordance with the Vedic tradition, Brahman.
3. This move, the move of starting with the full and the actual is one which has become somewhat suspect in the scientific West, and which needs some justification. The question is “where are we going to start our thinking?” In part, this is an aesthetic question. We can always decide that we are content to start in an arbitrary set of premises, as long as those premises lead to an explanation for the way that things are now. This is the procedure that is generally adopted in science. But, in the context of metaphysics, where we are asking deeper questions, when we start with an arbitrary set of premises (for example, low entropy energy singularity (Big Bang), spacetime, and mathematical laws) we can always ask “Where did that come from?” My mind, at least, rests uneasily on such a basis.
4. My mind rests more easily if I begin with the assumption of a complex unity, containing within itself unity and plurality, infinity and finitude, good and evil – indeed all possible qualities – and yet transcending the totality of qualities in a fullness unknowable by mind.
5. One way that I reason to such a totality is by considering the plurality of entities that I find in the universe of my experience. All of these entities, no matter how diverse they are, are in utter solidarity with each other. They are all part of one universe. Even if I imagine that this one universe comes into existence out of a plurality of diverse factors (say, a Good God and an Evil God, as the Manicheans might suggest, or Creativity, Eternal Objects and God, as Alfred North Whitehead suggests), it must still be the case that these primordial factors are interacting with each other – and such an interaction necessitates a larger, more embracing context. Ultimately, then, in this sense, the universe is One, and that One must be such as to contain and uphold all.
6. I cannot claim any compelling rational justification for such a way of constructing a metaphysical understanding. I can, however, at least point to the way in which the ultimate starting point of our thinking as we launch into the metaphysical enterprise is a matter of pre-philosophical choice. Do we want to begin our thinking with some factors which are abstracted out of sense experience? Or do we want to start our thinking with the all embracing Unity in which all existence is playing itself out?

[A hilarious take on some pretentious concerts, histrionics, "spiritual/divine side" of classical music.] https://t.co/3yqALxPfaO

[Sri Aurobindo on Economic Blockade] https://t.co/2cFME4PEm0

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