Savitri Era Learning Forum

6h Replugging our article on the leftism of Nehru & Bose sringeribelur.wordpress.com/nehru-subhas-a Bose had defined leftism as uncompromising opposition to British imperialism. It is in that sense he was leftist. In that sense he said Aurobindo & Tilak were leftists too. Conflation is misleading:

...

After Menas's first sentence (whose use of "duality" is ambiguous) the rest isn't about mathematics, but (at best) a form of metamathematics that only a look at the source can make Menas's inchoate description intelligible.

Bruno Marchal's talk of universal machines is not especially relevant to consciousness the way he presents it. They are computers that can implement any finite algorithm/program. Human minds and physical machines are bound by time, so there is an upper limit to how long such an algorithm can be.

The listing of Alan Turing may be a source of confusion: universal machines have nothing to do with the poorly defined and methodologically unsound "Turing Test." In his original essay on it, Turing sweeps the whole issue of consciousness under the rug. Thus "thinking" becomes, by definition, passing Turing's ill-conceived test.

Peter Nyikos

Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--

University of South Carolina

http://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/Online_Sadhu_Sanga/BN8PR19MB27851C63BF42AAB10868930A879E0%40BN8PR19MB2785.namprd19.prod.outlook.com

Dear Paul and Vinod Kumar (Sehgal: VKS) and all,

Neuroscience is agnostic on astral world or noosphere; this doesn’t mean the former rejects the latter. To establish astral world scientifically yogi SPD (Dubey) needs to do experiments from scratch as I elaborated in letter to yogi SPD.

To understand VKS’ 7 queries, first, we need to understand the highly respected James’ “I” (self-as-subject) which seems to be “metaphysical (beyond physical brain) self” as elaborated in my letter to VKS.

My working hypothesis is that James’ “I” might be linked to dual-aspect Brahman; the latter is elaborated in dual-aspect Cit-acit Vishishtadvaita Vedanta and dual-aspect Shiva-Shakti in Kashmir Shaivism. If this is true, then “metaphysical self” might survive physical death. Then we can bring science and religions closer in a natural manner without any compromise.

Kind regards

Ram

On May 3, 2020, at 8:59 AM, Paul Werbos paul.werbos@gmail.com wrote: Many practitioners of astral travel claim that the "seven bodies" and "astral body" theory of OOBE is a delusion. More precisely, the mind has the power to PROJECT a humanoid body form with two legs and two arms, etc., just as it has the power to project tables and chairs and walls, into "the astral plane," a space of mental constructs similar to Internet chatrooms. Are those internet chatrooms (as in Second Life) real or are they delusions? Well, they are real IMAGES in the internet, capable of exchanging REAL information, but they are not as real as physical human bodies or chairs. At higher levels, people learn that they can CHANGE what they (or even others) project; some rightly talk about rising from the astral level to the mental level, where they directly engage with the IDEAS and THOUGHTS, which are the actual reality of that space. I am SO grateful to Dubey for his latest message, ever so honest and ever so well grounded in his experience. It reminds me of a GREAT TREE image of the noosphere which Yeshua and I have discussed on his list. More and more, I doubt and question SO MANY things, but it becomes ever more definite and clear that all of us humans are PART of the larger local whole of this solar system, and that our CONNECTIONS are the main "psi" or "siddhi" we have. NONE of us are fully connected to the whole tree, let alone the sky it reaches for, but Dubey has talked about real and important connections to what he sees in his own body. Nancy du Terte has ALSO been clear and honest in discussing important connections she has made. Those healing connections to the body remind me of a deceptively simple collection of stories, the Gateway series by Orson Scott Card. I bought those little books at a time when I needed to relax, and they were entertaining and calming. But by the end, I was startled to see his authentic connections with the same level which Dubey talks about, as aspect which Yeshua has understood and experienced more than I did. Still -- to connect with authentic, nonfundamentalist neuroscience, I WISH I had asked Walter Freeman more about his collaboration with students of qi gong near Nanjing. The truth is a global phenomenon (and more), of course, and there is more to be learned there. In truth, it was a variant of qi gong which was most useful to me in dealing with that level in my visit to Japan and Korea last October and November, when physical survival and health became unavoidable issues.

Email message from Vinod Sehgal to Ram and Forum members Dear Ram, I shall pose questions on these articles afterwards. Presently, I repeat the following questions which you have not replied. These questions are

1) During the lab conditions, when TPJ of the brains of subjects are stimulated, they experience OOBEs. From this neuroscientist infer that there are no real OOBEs in the sense that no astral body gets out of the physical body. But there is all the likelihood that stimulation of TPJ could be serving as a trigger for the exist of the astral body implying real OOBEs ( after all a number of yogis have reported of the ontological existence of the astral body). My Ist question to you as to from these experiments on TPJ, how it can be concluded that stimulation of TPJ does not serves as a trigger for the exist of astral body and hence real OOBEs?

2) Based upon the above mentioned lab exp on TPJ, a number of neuroscientists including you have been of the opinion that during Samaadhi state, yogis have only a SE of the fake OOBEs but otherwise no astral body gets out of the physical body. My second question to you: in the lab conditions, one can understand that electric stimulation could be causing TPJ activation but why and how such activation of TPJ should take place at all during Samadhi state by yogis.

3) My 3rd question. When and where TPJ activation has been detected and measured in the brain of yogis under real and deep Samaadhi when they experience real OOBEs. Without actual empirical studies, how can you assume that there is TPJ activation during Samaadhi state by yogis when they experience OOBEs? 4) My 4th question. If we may assume hypothetically that during Samaadhi state there is the activation of TPJ, a question arises as to how you/ neuroscientist can eliminate the likelihood that there is the actual exit of the astral body from the physical body ( after all that is what has been found by yogis during Samaadhi state) and the TPJ activation is the effect of the exit of the astral body from the physical body

5) My 5th question. It has been reported by yogis as well as non yogis who experience OOBEs that they see their own physical body and brain AT A DISTANCE. From this one can presume safely that Visual Cortex ( VC) of the brain is also at a distance from the yogi which is also being seen by the yogi. If VC itself is being seen by the yogi AT A DISTANCE, how you/ neuroscientist can infer that OOBES are some effect of the VC of the brain and that there are no real OOBEs?

6) Neuroscience has never tested quite enlightened advanced level yogis under deep and real Samaadhi state for any SE? Without testing, how neuroscientist can assume that Samaadhi state SEs have NCCs. This is my 6th question.

7) My 7th question. Assuming hypothetically that Samaadhi state SEs have NCCs. The purpose of your long standing demand to bring yogis in Samaadhi under fMRI/ EEG studies has been to prove that there is no astral body and that these NCCs are the NPBs. But a number of yogis from many spiritual traditions have reported of the ontological existence of the astral body/ mind and any SE being initiated and processed at the level of the astral mind. Therefore, there is the presence of some subjective evidence in favour of the astral mind/ astral body. Therefore, the NCCs should be NPEs and not NPBS. So my 7th question to you is: how neuroscientist can establish that detected NCCs are NPBs and not NPEs? You may argue that neuroscience does not recognise astral body and hence the observed NCCs are not NPEs. But your this argument is self contradictory. Why? Since the whole purpose of bringing yogis in Samaadhi state had been to prove that there is no astral body and if neuroscientist ASSUME that there is no astral body, the whole purpose of such studies get defeated.

Ok above are my 7 questions. Have you any clear and convincing answer.? If yes please respond in a specific and serialized manner. If no better to keep silent. But please don't dilute and divert from the above issues. Regards. Vinod Sehgal

...

‘Science and Scientist’ conferences have been organized since 2013 and attracted participants from all around the world to discuss progress in their state of the art research on the deeper reality of Life, Consciousness, and origin of Life and Matter. The theme of Science and Scientist 2020 is Understanding the Subject/Object, Mind/Body Unity. Its sessions will include the recent and most important conceptual development on fundamental questions in the various thematic sessions, including: ‘what is Matter?’; ‘what is Life?’; ‘origin of Matter, Consciousness and Life’; ‘Subject-Object relationship’; ‘Mind-Body relationship’; ‘distinction in nature of unity in Mechanical, Chemical and Biological systems’ and so on. Science and Scientist 2020 will highlight new conceptual and methodological developments, and most original findings and hypotheses as well as original ideas presented by a new generation of scientists and philosophers.

https://scienceandscientist.org/conference/2020;

We look forward to welcoming you at Science and Scientist 2020!

Sincerely,

On Behalf of Organizing Committee

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute

Bengaluru, India

January 14, 2021

Darwinism and Sri Aurobindo

Sri Aurobindo's Theory of Spiritual Evolution

P Heehs - Asian Religious Responses to Darwinism, 2020 - Springer

27 days ago - Sri Aurobindo's philosophy of spiritual evolution was based on ideas found in Indian spiritual texts but also incorporated Western ideas. Born in India, he was educated in England between 1879 and 1892, when the question of evolution dominated British …

[B] Sacred Time: Embracing an Intentional Way of Life

CV Paintner - books.google.com

We live in a world where there never seems to be enough time for all we want and need to do. In Sacred Time: Embracing an Intentional Way of Life, Christine Valters Paintner guides us as we move beyond our own lives and embrace a world that urges us toward rest …

Re-Imagining an Ancient Greek Philosopher: The Pythagorean Musings of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)

AB Renger - The Occult Nineteenth Century, 2021

… All these features make up an integral part of Pythagoras' unreserved love for wisdom that he communicated to his students in the form … of international dissemination in English, Osho imparted his ideas and objectives to Venizelos …

That said, having to ban an account has real and significant ramifications. While there are clear and obvious exceptions, I feel a ban is a failure of ours ultimately to promote healthy conversation. And a time for us to reflect on our operations and the environment around us...

It’s important that we acknowledge this is a time of great uncertainty and struggle for so many around the world. Our goal in this moment is to disarm as much as we can, and ensure we are all building towards a greater common understanding, and a more peaceful existence on earth.

I believe the internet and global public conversation is our best and most relevant method of achieving this. I also recognize it does not feel that way today. Everything we learn in this moment will better our effort, and push us to be what we are: one humanity working together.

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1349510784620003330?s=19

ସବୁଠାରୁ ପୁରାତନ ଧର୍ମ ହେଉଛି ଜୈନ ଧର୍ମ ଯାହାର ପଦଚିହ୍ନ ଭୁବନେଶ୍ଵରରେ । ଏହାର ବର୍ତ୍ତମାନ ସ୍ୱରୂପ ମୂଳ ପରି ନୁହେଁ କିନ୍ତୁ ଅନ୍ୟାନ୍ୟ ଧର୍ମ ଓ କିମ୍ବଦନ୍ତୀ ସବୁ ତାର ପ୍ରତିଫଳନ ମାତ୍ର । ପରବର୍ତ୍ତୀ ଅବସ୍ଥାରେ କାହାର ଦୋକାନ ଭଲ ଚାଲିଲା ବା କାହାକୁ ରାଜା ମହାରାଜା ମାନଙ୍କର ସାହଚର୍ଯ୍ୟ ମିଳିଲା ସେ ଅନୁସାରେ ଇତିହାସର ଗତିପଥ ବଦଳିଛି ।

ଓଡ଼ିଶାକୁ ଜଗର୍ଣ୍ଣାଥଙ୍କ ସହ ସମାନ କରିବା ଗୋଟିଏ ଚକ୍ରାନ୍ତ । ବିବିଧତାକୁ ସମ୍ମାନ କରିବା ଓ ନୂତନତାକୁ ସ୍ଵାଗତ କରିବା ଏକ କର୍ତ୍ତବ୍ୟ । ପ୍ରପତ୍ତିଙ୍କ ପ୍ରେରଣାରେ ହଜାର ହଜାର ଯାଗାରେ ଶ୍ରୀମା ଓ ଶ୍ରୀଅରବିନ୍ଦଙ୍କ ମନ୍ଦିର ଗଢି ଉଠିଛି ଏବଂ ଓଡ଼ିଶା ପାଇଁ ଏହା ଏକ ନବଜାଗରଣ । ଯୁବକ ଯୁବତୀ ମାନେ ଏହି ସୁଯୋଗର ଲାଭ ସଙ୍ଗ୍ରହ କରିବା ଉଚିତ୍ । https://t.co/H0SRM8OICo

ପଚାଶ ବର୍ଷ ପୂର୍ବେ ଲେଖାଯାଇଥିବା ଏହି ନଥିକରଣ କେବଳ ଓଡ଼ିଶା ଇତିହାସରେ ନୁହେଁ ବରଂ ପୃଥିବୀର ଚେତନା ଜଗତରେ ଏକ ବିପ୍ଲବ ଓ ବିସ୍ଫୋରଣ । ଆଶା ଆଜିର ଶିକ୍ଷିତ ବର୍ଗ ଏହାର ଉପାଦେୟତାକୁ ବୁଝିବେ ଓ ଶ୍ରୀମା ଓ ଶ୍ରୀଅରବିନ୍ଦଙ୍କ ଆଦର୍ଶରେ ଅନୁପ୍ରାଣିତ ବହୁ କବି ଓ ଲେଖକଙ୍କ ଭାବଧାରାକୁ ପ୍ରଚାର କରିବା ପାଇଁ ସ୍ୱତସ୍ଫୁର୍ତ ଭାବରେ ଆଗେଇ ଆସିବେ । https://t.co/yPFM0Arblp

https://twitter.com/NathTusar/status/1349222777954332674?s=19

Eternal Truth and the Mutations of Time: Archival Documents and Claims of Timeless Truth P Heehs Aisthesis. Pratiche, linguaggi e saperi dell’estetico 13 (2), 143-153, 2020
Sri Aurobindo’s Theory of Spiritual Evolution P Heehs Asian Religious Responses to Darwinism, 167-184, 2020
Spirituality without God: a global history of thought and practice P Heehs Bloomsbury Publishing, 2018	6
Aurobindo and supermind P Heehs The Gnostic World, 603-609, 2018
Cosmopolitan Modernity in Early 20th-Century India S Mohanty Taylor & Francis, 2018	6
Practices of Nontheistic Spirituality P Heehs Practical Spirituality and Human Development, 63-80, 2018	1
Aurobindo Ghose and the Rise of the Revolutionary Sannyasi NN Acharyya, K Ahmed, BC Allen, J Alter, B Anderson, R Aquil, ... Pilgrimage and Politics in Colonial Bengal: The Myth of the Goddess Sati 53 …, 2017
Sri Aurobindo and his Ashram, 1910–2010: An Unfinished History P Heehs Nova Religio: The Journal of Alternative and Emergent Religions 19 (1), 65-86, 2015	2
‘Not a Question of Theology’? Religions, Religious Institutions, and the Courts in India P Heehs Comparative Legal History 1 (2), 243-261, 2013	2
Writing the self: Diaries, memoirs, and the history of the self P Heehs A&C Black, 2013	67
Roots, Branches, and Seeds P Heehs Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, 2013
Situating Sri Aurobindo: A Reader P Heehs	6
The Kabbalah, the Philosophie Cosmique, and the Integral Yoga. A Study in Cross-Cultural Influence P Heehs Aries 11 (2), 219-247, 2011	6
Revolutionary Terrorism in British Bengal P Heehs Terror and the Postcolonial: A Concise Companion, 153-76, 2010	10
The Lives of Sri Aurobindo P Heehs Columbia University Press, 2008	101
Sri Aurobindo and Hinduism P Heehs AntiMatters 2 (2), 33-45, 2008	4
The uses of Sri Aurobindo: mascot, whipping-boy, or what? P Heehs Postcolonial Studies 9 (2), 151-164, 2006	5
Nationalism, religion, and beyond: writings on politics, society, and culture Aurobindo,, P Heehs, Aurobindo, P Heehs Permanent Black, 2005	5
Nationalism, Religion, and Beyond: Writings on Politics, Society, and Culture A Ghose Permanent Black, 2005	2
Shades of Orientalism: paradoxes and problems in Indian historiography P Heehs History and Theory 42 (2), 169-195, 2003

Sri Aurobindo P Heehs na, 2003	3
La Vie de Sri Aurobindo P Heehs, P Ghirardi Ed. du Rocher, 2003	4
The centre of the religious life of the world: Spiritual universalism and cultural nationalism in the works of Sri Aurobindo P Heehs Hinduism in public and private, 66-83, 2003	8
Indian religions: the spiritual traditions of South Asia: an anthology P Heehs Orient Blackswan, 2002	11
Indian religions: A historical reader of spiritual expression and experience P Heehs NYU Press, 2002	39
Shaped Like Themselves P Heehs History and Theory 39 (3), 417-428, 2000	7*
The error of all “churches”: Religion and spirituality in communities founded or ‘inspired’by Sri Aurobindo P Heehs Gurus and their followers: New religious reform movements in colonial India …, 2000	6
India's Freedom Struggle 1857–1947: A Short History P Heehs Oxford University Press, 1998	31
The essential writings of Sri Aurobindo A Ghose	25
Nationalism, terrorism, communalism: Essays in modern Indian history P Heehs Oxford University Press, USA, 1998	57
Peasants and Monks in British India P Heehs International Journal of Hindu Studies 1 (2), 434-435, 1997
Indian communalism a survey of historical and social‐scientific approaches P Heehs South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies 20 (1), 99-113, 1997	5
Bengali religious nationalism and communalism P Heehs International Journal of Hindu Studies 1 (1), 117-139, 1997	3
Genius, mysticism, and madness. P Heehs The Psychohistory Review 26, 45, 1997	10
The Bomb in Bengal: The Rise of Revolutionary Terrorism in India, 1900–1910 HT Frazer The Historian 58 (1), 158-159, 1995
Narrative painting and narratives about paintings: Poussin among the philosophers P Heehs Narrative 3 (3), 211-231, 1995	10
India's divided loyalties? P Heehs History Today 45 (7), 16-23, 1995	11
Foreign Influences on Bengali Revolutionary Terrorism 1902-1908 P Heehs Modern Asian Studies 28 (3), 533-556, 1994	42
Myth, history, and theory P Heehs History and Theory, 1-19, 1994	141
An Old Approach to the New History P Heehs Studies in History 9 (2), 279-288, 1993
Terrorism in India during the freedom struggle P Heehs The Historian 55 (3), 469-482, 1993	16
Religion and revolt: Bengal under the Raj. P Heehs History Today 43 (1), 29-35, 1993	4
The bomb in Bengal: the rise of revolutionary terrorism in India, 1900-1910 P Heehs Oxford University Press, 1993	137
Aurobindo Ghose and revolutionary terrorism P Heehs South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies 15 (2), 47-69, 1992	5
The Maniktala secret society: An early Bengali terrorist group P Heehs The Indian Economic & Social History Review 29 (3), 349-370, 1992	6
[BOOK REVIEW] INDIA'S FREEDOM STRUGGLE, 1857-1947, A SHORT HISTORY P Heehs Asian Affairs 23, 207-208, 1992
[BOOK REVIEW] Sri Aurobindo, a brief biography P Heehs Asian Affairs 22, 90-91, 1991
Modern India and World History: India's Freedom Struggle, 1857-1947 and World Developments Since 1945 P Heehs Oxford University Press, 1991
Sri Aurobindo: A brief biography P Heehs

December 08, 2020

Re-reading Sri Aurobindo

Pragmatism, Spirituality, and the Calling of a New Democracy: The Populist Challenge and Ambedkar's Integration of Buddhism and Dewey

K Mahadevan - Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society

… populism. Ambedkar's Critique of Populism. Studies of populism in India tend to foreground the recent resurgence of right-wing Hindutva. 16 Yet populism in India is neither a new phenomenon nor restricted to the Hindu right …

Chatterji, Angana P., Thomas Blom Hansen, and Christophe Jaffrelot (eds.): Majoritarian State. How Hindu Nationalism Is Changing India. London: C. Hurst, 2019 …

O Gächter - Anthropos, 2020

… Nandini Sundar writes in “Hindutva Incorporation and Socioeco‐ nomic Exclusion” about the Adivasi dilemma … “Even as Hindutva is appropriating and denying Adi‐ vasi gods, it is also facing resistance from a wide vari‐ ety

Lay Meanings and Associated Experiences of Nonattachment (Anasakti): A Study From India

K Gupta, J Agrawal - Journal of Humanistic Psychology, 2020

Anasakti, translated as “nonattachment” in English, is one of the important philosophical concepts of Hinduism and Buddhism. It has also been studied in contemporary psychology using various measur...

[HTML] The transcendent function of dreams

L Mukherjee - THE JOURNAL, 2020

… This paper concentrates on how dreams accompany us in our inner journeys. Examples from spiritual traditions, Indian wisdom texts and Tibetan dream yoga are presented, along with Sri Aurobindo and the Mother's teachings …

Cosmopolitan Nationalism, Spirituality and Spaces in Rabindranath Tagore and Sri Aurobindo

PC Mukherjee - Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society

In this essay, I engage with the idea of pragmatic spirituality as conceptualised, practiced, and interpreted by Sri Aurobindo and Rabindranath Tagore in the everydayness of experiential spaces. In Sri Aurobindo's “integral vision”, spiritualism …

[HTML] The transcendent function of dreams

L Mukherjee - THE JOURNAL, 2020

… This paper concentrates on how dreams accompany us in our inner journeys. Examples from spiritual traditions, Indian wisdom texts and Tibetan dream yoga are presented, along with Sri Aurobindo and the Mother's teachings …

Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society: An Introduction and an Invitation

AK Giri - Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society

… exploring its spiritual dimension. He engages with Sri Aurobindo, Heidegger, and Wittgenstein and explores spiritual dimension in their engagement with and reconstruction of language, self, and society. Giri also cultivates the …

Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society: Border Crossings, Transformations and Planetary Realizations

AK Giri

… Makarand told me that he is coming to Pondicherry University next month to join a seminar on “Re-Reading Sri Aurobindo.” I became interested in this and wrote to Professor V. Muraleedharan, the-then Professor of English …

Pragmatism and Spirituality: New Horizons of Theory and Practice and the Calling of Planetary Realizations

AK Giri - Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society

… Poetics of pragmatism. This first builds on a presentation on “Sri Aurobindo and Spiritual Pragmatism” presented at the international seminar on “Re-reading Sri Aurobindo,” organized by Department of English in 2010. I thank …

[PDF] VITAL TOPICS FORUM

SK Becker, SL Juengst - American Anthropologist, 2020

… Building on a long history of social and biological evolution- ary thought (eg, Giri 2011; Ingold 1986; Kropotkin 1902; Rousseau 2006; Sri Aurobindo 1962), Stanish (2017) ex- plored how human cooperation has deep …

Savitri Era Learning Forum

Pages

June 11, 2021

Ten must read old books

January 24, 2021

Thinking becomes passing Turing's test

January 14, 2021

Darwinism and Sri Aurobindo

Sri Aurobindo's Theory of Spiritual Evolution

[B] Sacred Time: Embracing an Intentional Way of Life

Re-Imagining an Ancient Greek Philosopher: The Pythagorean Musings of Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh (Osho)

December 08, 2020

Re-reading Sri Aurobindo

Pragmatism, Spirituality, and the Calling of a New Democracy: The Populist Challenge and Ambedkar's Integration of Buddhism and Dewey

Chatterji, Angana P., Thomas Blom Hansen, and Christophe Jaffrelot (eds.): Majoritarian State. How Hindu Nationalism Is Changing India. London: C. Hurst, 2019 …

Lay Meanings and Associated Experiences of Nonattachment (Anasakti): A Study From India

[HTML] The transcendent function of dreams

Cosmopolitan Nationalism, Spirituality and Spaces in Rabindranath Tagore and Sri Aurobindo

[HTML] The transcendent function of dreams

Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society: An Introduction and an Invitation

Pragmatism, Spirituality and Society: Border Crossings, Transformations and Planetary Realizations

Pragmatism and Spirituality: New Horizons of Theory and Practice and the Calling of Planetary Realizations

[PDF] VITAL TOPICS FORUM

William James's Pragmatism and Some Aspects of Roman Catholic Teaching

Lay Meanings and Associated Experiences of Nonattachment (Anasakti): A Study From India

[PDF] Poverty Alleviation For Improved Family Welfare Through Women‟ s Entrepreneurship Empowerment Model

To Become Gods, or to Perish in the Process…