SethF1968 (MIA Author) on November 26, 2012 at 1:32 pm said:
Rossa Yes I think they are complementary. Man is the Messiah as well as the son of God, the human is created in “the image of God.” In the Vedic myth the seeker goes looking for God only to discover “Tat twam asi,” i.e., “That thou art,”—that he/she is God. Serine expresses a vision that is both mystical(vertical dimension) and messianic (the horizontal dimension). She astutely says Jesus’s victory is only partial because people are starving—therefore the need for messiahs. (BTW scientists in quantum physics are increasingly spiritual but science cannot prove, or disprove, the existence of God.) But as children of God, one of our divine obligations must be to save, to redeem, just as God seeks to redeem. St. Athanasius said “God became man so that man could become god.”In Hinduism and Christianity,God takes on human form, enters into the lower earthly realms for the purpose of saving, of elevating, transforming— and of educating, of showing the way. (I never said, Maxima, that this obviated the need for grace, but I do not believe it requires elevating Jesus above the Divine Mother or Krishna or vice versa.) In Christianity there is the incarnation, in Buddhism there are Bodhisattvas, and in Hinduism there are a series of Avatars. The Avatar is a divine being who comes down at critical point to save. But in each of these religions human beings have a messianic-redemptive role. My point is to revive the messianic vision, the idea of humanity’s messianic vocation, and the idea of the Mad as agents of messianic transformation. The messianic vision is the final reconciliation of humanity and God, the transcendence of suffering. This means affirming the concept of the messianic, in spite of modern secular world’s attempt to banish it—the mystical is far more reputable, since it doesn’t threaten corporate capitalism.
As Hindus says God manifests the world out of Herself, not out of nothing—it is thus intrinsically sacred. This is what Alex says eloquently also, but I… read more
Genuine redemption does not separate soul and body–which David suggests is the problem. That is the product of the Enlightenment war on nature and the body—transcended in the vision of the greatest messianic philosopher the world has known, Sri Aurobindo (1872-1950). In his epic poem Savitri based on adaptation of Indian legend Savitri is depicted by Aurobindo as an Avatar, the only female Avatar ever conceived in the Hindu tradition. Unlike most Avatars Savitri does not know she is an Avatar until she is forced to battle with Death and feels the World-Mother come alive within her. When Savitri meets her future spouse Satyavan he senses Savitri is more than human. He tells her of his frustration with a liberation that is purely spiritual.
SethF1968 (MIA Author) on November 26, 2012 at 10:29 pm said:
I carelessly omitted quotation marks in the last two paragraphs in my reply above –they were from Faith’s commentary. I see the below as an ideal that ought to govern Mad Pride
For example she stated “I understand that it would be a wonderful thing in the world to have masses of mad people – redeemed “schizophrenics” and “bipolars” and “depressives” – rise up in a cultural wave of peace, wisdom, and evolutionary clarity about what is and is not important. I understand how fantastic it would be if mad folks could inspire people to adopt an ethos of love, humility and stewardship.”
Sri Aurobindo did not subscribe to the Traditionalist view. He did not reify as natural and inevitable the circumstances of life at present– birth, death (mortality), suffering and predation–the whole realm of what philosophers call natural evil. He described the higher life, the purpose not yet realized of the evolutionary process.An extinction of the human race would be more than just a temporary set-back.
Sri Aurobindo The Life Divine
“The gnostic individual would be the consummation of the spiritual man; his whole way of being, thinking, living, acting would be governed by the power of a vast universal spirituality. ..All his existence would be fused into oneness with the transcendent and universal Self and Spirit… He would feel the presence of the Divine in every centre of his consciousness, in every vibration of his life-force, in every cell of his body. In all the workings of his force of Nature he would be aware of the workings of the supreme World-Mother; he would see his natural being as the becoming and manifestation of the power of the World-Mother. In this consciousness he would live and act in an entire transcendent freedom, a complete joy of the spirit, an entire identity with the cosmic self and a spontaneous sympathy with all in the universe. All beings would be to him his own selves, all ways and powers of consciousness would be felt as the ways and powers of his own… read more
SethF1968 (MIA Author) on December 2, 2012 at 9:49 am said:
Hi Metalrabbit, Take a look at THe Politics of Experience by R D Laing. THe so-called schizophrenics, and now “bipolars”(manic depressive” was a rarely used label 30 + yrs go) are spiritual pioneers, said Laing. What if he is right? What are the implications? Now right after Laing said the mad might be the most enlightened beings on the planet-and even that they might have a redemptive role to play– he dropped the idea like a hot potato. And he gave up political activism. Of course both MindFReedom and TIP have saved a lot of people
They started the revolution against the mental health system. And they are still doing good work.But the oceans are dying, 200 species go extinct every day, and global warming exceeds what the scientists had predicted. We may not have much time to reverse our course in order to save life on earth.
We are at the turning point now–after 10,000 years.
It’s only logical that many of those people who march to the tune of a different drummer are going to be captured by the mind- police and end up in loony bins. The system needs to neutralize them. Yes MindFreedom provides good companions, as you say. AS does TIP. MindFreedom is holding the Szaszian banner high. And they “deprogram” people. And TIP invites them to create a different reality. They both proved the mental death system wrong.
Nevertheless there is an illusion shared by many in MindFReedom and TIP–that small changes are more effective than trying to realize grandiose dreams. That’s a dangerous illusion because it leads people to stop thinking about grandiose dreams. But their grandiose dreams are the pavement on the road to paradise,
It’s an illusory choice because the only alternative to omnicide is a new Great Awakening and the political/social changes such an Awakening would inspire.
It seems like it would be easier to change the “mental health system” than to usher in the kingdom of heaven, or paradise. But that’s an illusion.
Humanity needs prophets, messianic catalysts to… read more
