May 11, 2017

Consciousness emerges from the numbers

Dear Tusar,

I think it is plausible that consciousness emerges from the numbers and addition and multiplication. All the rest might belong to numbers' dreams, somehow.
Best Regards,

Bruno
May 11, 2017
...

My point is that IF we assume Mechanism, then we have to derive physics from a theory of consciousness, and we have to derive a theory of consciousness from elementary arithmetic, or any Turing equivalent (with respect to computability) theory.

Note that I have shown a version of the non cloning theorem even before I knew the existence of QM. Most of QM is derivable from intuitive Mechanism, once you see that arithmetic already leads to a "many-dream interpretation of arithmetic".

So, it is the other way around. We must and can explain the quantum from consciousness, and we must and can explain consciousness from the numbers. Like I said below.

Bruno
May 11, 2017
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Bruno,

I thank you for the detailed response. Though I do not feel comfortable with the term 'idealism' I somewhat see what you are saying. Classical materialism will not work with mechanism with incompleteness. As for theology, it is interesting that during medieval philosophy in Europe and the middle east there were tremendous developments in logic and these logicians were also theologians. Similarly, in medieval Indian philosophy, the Nyaya philosophers were perhaps the most rigorous in epistemology and logic and also theory builders. They were also theological in some sense. If there is a resurgence of logic among theologians today that is good news.

Priyedarshi
May 11, 2017
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Priyedarshi,

You are right: "idealism" is not the best word. The position which I think to be enforced by Mechanism is more like a form of neutral monism à-la-Spinoza. It is the entire consciousness/matter-appearance coupling which should (and partially is) be derived from elementary arithmetic. It is an immaterialist (arithmetical or equivalent) neutral (with respect to mind and matter) monism. 

Very interesting. yet, I would say that today, it is more theology which appears unavoidable for the computer scientists and the logicians. Of course the word "theology" is used in a more general sense than the senses used in most institutionalized religions. 

To be clear, the theology of the machine M is given by the set of all true propositions about M, including its many different possible points of view, that the machine is able to find and guess, but unable to justify rationally. This definition should hurt nobody, believer or not, except the fanatics or anyone claiming to know the truth.

The interesting news is that some machines (the Gödel-Löbian one) can find some of their own undecidable propositions. Then they can go "very near inconsistency". In fact incompleteness might explain a possible danger in the theological field. There are true proposition which remains true as long as the machine remains silent on it, and became false when assumed, or asserted. This does not mean that the machine will have no use of such proposition, but it is a bit like walking on eggs. Lao-Ze seems well inspired when saying that the wise man remains silent and that only the fools talk. 

Bruno 

PS I might remain silent, or less present, for a while, not because I would be wise :) but because I am a teacher and the exam period will be very heavy this year. My silence should not be taken as a lack of interest. I will try to keep reading the posts. 

Dear Siegfried,

Thanks for your insightful response. I was really more worried about the obsessions of philosophers of science with reducing biology to chemistry and chemistry to physics as was the case with some of the logical positivists. The reduction programs themselves were quite ambitious and perhaps carried out well to an extent. Since one important feature of science is explanation, there may be explanations in chemistry that are superior to those in physics for some phenomena. Hence, it may not matter whether or not the reduction is possible or achieved. As for consciousness, I will remain silent as I am not into the game of first calling it a hard problem and then trying to solve it.

The way I understand Chalmers and others, it is a pseudo problem as the distinction between hard and easy problems is quite arbitrary but has nonetheless created an industry around it. There are many problems within each science and the scientists may decide to call them hard or soft but whatever is considered an important problem to solve, the scientists attempt to solve it. I just don't see why and how scientists would consider the problem of consciousness to be a problem at all, leave alone a hard problem. But it had appeared in the popular Scientific American I believe so it is in fashion no doubt.

Priyedarshi
May 11, 2017
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Dear Tusar,

As I understand it the hard problem of consciousness is a pseudo problem as it is stated by first making an assumption that there is consciousness and that everyone would agree with this. This is what I question. To me the ordinary use of the word 'consciousness' as doctors use it has to do with the proper functioning of the body. So, I really do not know how we jump to a meaning of 'consciousness' that is non bodily.

There are many perspectives on consciousness of course and it requires a lot of work to understand them.

Priyedarshi Jetli
May 11, 2017
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A Universal Model Integrating Matter, Mind, & Consciousness Resolves the Hard Problem & Cosmic Conundrum
Avtar Singh, Sc. D.
Massachusetts Institute of Technology Alumni
Center for Horizons Research

ABSTRACT
 A multi-disciplinary and universal approach to consciousness addresses consciousness issues within the context of both neuroscience and contemporary physics.  This paper proposes an integrated model that provides a direct relationship between the physics concepts of space, time, mass, and energy, and the consciousness concepts of spontaneity and free will. The observed spontaneity or free will in natural phenomena, which include human mind, is represented as a lower order manifestation of the higher order universal consciousness. The approach of the scientific research is two-fold. First is to complete the picture of universal reality via integrating consciousness into a physical model and explain the observed empirical universe behavior resolving the current paradoxes, singularities, and inconsistencies of the mainstream scientific theories. Second is to develop a framework for an integrated model of matter, mind, and consciousness founded on the wholesome reality including consciousness. 

A successful agreement between the predictions and empirical observations of the universe demonstrates the validity and credibility of the proposed approach. The predictions are further testable and falsifiable via future empirical observations. Universal consciousness is shown to be the eternal fundamental state of existence depicted as the Zero Point State. The neurobiological or brain-mind processes and qualia (emotions, thoughts, intentions etc.) are shown to be a subset of the relativistic states of consciousness or the universal mind represented as one wholesome continuum of space-time-mass-energy - an orderly physical phenomenon governed by the universal laws and not a brain generated imperative.

Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.
Alumni, MIT
Author of "The Hidden Factor - An Approach for Resolving Paradoxes of Science, Cosmology, and Universal Reality"
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Will Hindutva erase the eclectic, liberal and uninhibited legacy of Hinduism? https://t.co/1gTJZ0VALB - https://t.co/GXee7AqPm3
We are living in very strange and very dark times. Majoritarian communalism masquerading as nationalism is trying to impose its ideological hegemony and browbeat others into submission. And, perhaps for the first time, the punitive and coercive powers of the state are being made use of on such a wide scale. 

Shame on you @Carleton_U An eminent scholar like @MakrandParanspe forced to cancel his talk by your bigoted faculty https://t.co/rtAqFpu7rS
Open letter to Carleton U Pres in @MailOnline after @DailyO_& @dna refused; Left still rules journo roost in India?https://t.co/ujCYaC3nmh

Nationalism, Karmayoga and Sri Aurobindo https://t.co/LPidKSokOV - https://t.co/kbCoRMG60D
Nationalism as a living force of the soul of a collective human race is not too difficult to comprehend as its possible realisation in the lives of men. For indeed nationalism and spirituality are the dynamics of the Spirit and to see one divorced from the other is to maim both for the sake of our barren intellectual pursuits. Liberals oppose it as a form of rising evil only to be smothered at any cost or by any means -
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